we need psu private server up again

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Re: we need psu private server up again

Postby LightDark » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:42 pm

essen wrote:The issue with this server in particular is that it does a lot of things, has many weird stuff that SEGA patched in update after update, and all this is overly complicated and would take a lot more time to reimplement than writing a server from scratch. So while I'm still interested in doing a game server, I'm not so much interested in implementing PSU's, where every time you dig into it you find even more limitations on what you can do.

Even so, why didn't you implement what you already know so far onto the server?

To me (from the perspective of a bystander) that while you had significantly more data than what nyuzero would ever had, you also didn't advance forward either. Maybe you had your reasons, but I assumed that due to the previous test (character creation) that you were ready to move on with the next thing; but you never did. Like I said, the server was impressive at its first sight with its many semi-functional features (even if done "incorrectly") but that impression was lost over time because you didn't deliver what you said you were going to do and instead left no details on the "progress" of the server that spanned for months.

I guess what I want an answer for is: Why did you constantly give us high expectations about the server (going through and discussing about the "future") when you couldn't even get the simpler features functional yet?
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Re: we need psu private server up again

Postby essen » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:10 pm

I implemented everything I knew onto the server. And that didn't get us far, didn't it. The server had inventories, NPCs, accounts (in-memory), zones, quests, custom scripts and areas, seasons, partial lobbies, partial counters and partial missions, parties were half working, etc. I delivered a lot, but of course that doesn't show much because something that "looks like working" (even though it was just hardcoded to get something up) and something that "actually works" are pretty much indistinguishable for someone testing the server.

But not even half the work required was done. And the most crucial part, understanding hits, was never done. I became busy before I could take it on and nobody tried to step up and do the work for it. It *is* likely the hardest part, considering what I learnt from it, but still, nobody seemed to care.

Also, we discussed future plans between ourselves based on what we knew. That people got expectations from it is their problem, plans are plans, they're made to give a roadmap and may eventually change. And they did change everytime we found something wasn't possible, although they didn't change that much.
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Re: we need psu private server up again

Postby LightDark » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:56 am

essen wrote:Also, we discussed future plans between ourselves based on what we knew. That people got expectations from it is their problem, plans are plans, they're made to give a roadmap and may eventually change. And they did change everytime we found something wasn't possible, although they didn't change that much.

You're right in that we shouldn't consider "plans" as "expectations." But I also feel you jumped the gun by going way too far with the plans - especially since you still had those that existed two years ago.

Believe it or not, back when the server was hardcoded, you did get really far, significantly farther than what nyuzero had. That formed a nice competition between your team and theirs and I'm sure most people back then liked that enjoyment of watching the two compete to finish. But eventually, they gave up and you became the center of attention. Now, you placed the project "on-hold" for an indefinite amount of time. Not saying it's the same idea as giving up, but I'm wondering how much longer it would take before you actually do officially "give up" on the PSU server, particularly since you keep pointing out that it is simply much better to write a new server from scratch than to implement PSU's one.
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Re: we need psu private server up again

Postby essen » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:04 pm

The plans were discussed between ourselves long before we started to think they could be applied to a PSU server. We didn't go too far away. We were already there.

Between the end of nyuzero's server and me more or less stopping there's been a year of hard work that you seem to forget, which brought things insanely great like allowing us to build zones and quests, scripting and everything! I know this makes no difference to you who only tested it, but know that this was a *required* step for the server to work properly, something that you couldn't just hack and move on. It was also a *very long* work and it took Agrajag and me months to understand the general format of the things (excluding a few oddities that we ignored for now). Most bytecodes for the scripts are known thanks to this hard work, and yes we *need* to know what the script does to make the server work too.

So all this is overly complicated and is partly what triggers the "better to write from scratch" sentiment. But regardless, despite the project being on hold, if someone ever manages to understand how hit packets work, we might end up with a working server eventually. But this particular task is insanely hard because so far we don't know most values (most don't seem too important as they're mostly floats, but I suppose you need them to check "From behind!"), and two values we know are namely AttackType and AttackFlags and there's hundreds if not thousands of attack types. And we don't have a list of them. So we can't know what happened, and we can't calculate damage, making everything else pointless.
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Re: we need psu private server up again

Postby LightDark » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:14 pm

In other words, you are currently "trapped" because you don't have the necessary information to advance. So it still does come down to finding someone with the skills to get the information that you need.

Makes sense. But I'm still worried about EGS's state as it is, given everything that has happened so far. It will continue to stay dormant until something new happens, which is kind of depressing.
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Re: we need psu private server up again

Postby essen » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:21 pm

All I know is that from my level of knowledge I either had to try every single possible attack individually, which would take a depressing amount of time, or give up, because I have no idea where to find all these attack types, and they're probably not in a single file in the client, but likely scattered everywhere in monster files and PA files and such. So yeah, no time, no data, things don't look too good at the moment.
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Re: we need psu private server up again

Postby Hominghead » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:24 pm

essen wrote:All I know is that from my level of knowledge I either had to try every single possible attack individually, which would take a depressing amount of time, or give up, because I have no idea where to find all these attack types, and they're probably not in a single file in the client, but likely scattered everywhere in monster files and PA files and such. So yeah, no time, no data, things don't look too good at the moment.


I suppose you did already try to read the Attack Type flags bit-wise. Makes sense to me that way atleast, having that many flags.
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Re: we need psu private server up again

Postby Max B » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:00 am

@ OP as people have said since the start of the server the amount of people helping has remained the same (basically) and a large majority of the people that stayed around could not contribute in any significant way (some even offered to contribute monetarily but were denied)
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Re: we need psu private server up again

Postby mattwo » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:37 am

You know it's just kind of amusing that this site is called PSU-mods but barely anyone plays PSU anymore and the main PSU projects are no longer active...
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Re: we need psu private server up again

Postby SaltyFish » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:46 pm

mattwo wrote:You know it's just kind of amusing that this site is called PSU-mods but barely anyone plays PSU anymore and the main PSU projects are no longer active...

Artifact Title... we has one.

On another note, maybe the people here still play PSU. But it's been out so long, there isn't much left to discuss until Agrajag puts out something new. Half of the comments in the PSU sections lately come from n00bz who don't read and are asking something already answered.
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