The Localization Argumentation Destination [Patch Feedback]

I'm sure PSO2 will get a US version some time this century. Meanwhile there is a patch and this is the forum where you can discuss it and get help with issues.

Re: The Localization Argumentation Destination [Patch Feedba

Postby triytez » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:49 pm

Most of the names used for the patch are flawless, however, some things bug me for a lot of time. Those are:

Vibrace instead of (subjectively) nicer-sounding Vibras. (You joked about this in opening post, but it would be still interesting to know why'd the team go with the current version.)
Vardha instead of Varder (not the first and not the last faux German-sounding word). Obviously, though, Vardha is closer to the truth than "Vader" which it was commonly called back during the release of Mines.

Also it would be criminal to not thank you for the continued support of the patch, as it obviously takes enormous amounts of dedication. Thanks everyone!
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Re: The Localization Argumentation Destination [Patch Feedba

Postby Mewn » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:54 pm

Vibrace (and by extension, Rinzece, the rare version) were mine. I noted the similarity to Bravace, the handgun from PSO1 (ブレイバス vs ビブラス) but not sure it was intended to be a reference. This one could go either way, really, so Vibras isn't wrong. Honestly you could translate that name a million ways with justification. In another universe I probably did call them Vibras and Rinzes.

Vardha isn't one of mine, I originally went with Varder. Can't remember who did name it, possibly Qwerty? I think it was something to do with Big Bertha but not sure on that.

Edit: oh, on the 'nicer-sounding', I pronounce Vibras and Vibrace the same way - vib-rass, I can see why the latter spelling isn't necessarily intuitive but I'm loathe to change a translation that isn't specifically wrong.
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Re: The Localization Argumentation Destination [Patch Feedba

Postby Qwerty » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:47 pm

Espio named Vardha. We originally had "Varder" but changed it to make the Big Bertha reference more clear.

For Vibrace, see Mewn's explanation above. Assuming you know it is NOT pronounced vib-RACE, then there's not really anything wrong about it.


These two are both examples of things that could have gone either way, with no one option really being any more correct than another. Thanks for your inquiry.
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Re: The Localization Argumentation Destination [Patch Feedba

Postby Liminality » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:20 am

Qwerty wrote:[*]Tell us why you do not like certain names we use in the patch and suggest changes (WARNING: You're probably wrong.)


Oh okay so this thread is pointless.

Whatever. I'm throwing this in and I'm out. I'm pretty fatigued from making the same arguments that get shot down anyway.

Qwerty wrote:And the answer is never, because those names are not only bad, but they are also wrong. But how, you ask, can an official name be wrong? Because many Japanese content creators do not have a precise grasp on English spelling and pronunciation. Additionally, there are multiple different systems that can be used to romanize Japanese text (even that written in katakana), and the systems taught in Japanese schools differ from the system commonly used by native English-speakers. And that is just one of many factors.

To the content creator (and the intended Japanese audience), there would be no significant difference between Chroto and Klotho, as they would both be read ku-ro-to. To an English-speaker, though, there is a huge difference. Klotho is not only an actual name, but it also fits with the naming scheme (minor planetoids) followed by multiple other NPCs in the game. Chroto, on the other hand, is...absolutely nothing. The same applies to Marlu/Marlur.

Clyde Mandelin wrote:As I’ve mentioned before, you really have to take “official” English spellings with a grain of salt. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve encountered incorrect English by a Japanese creator or licensor.


Sega has never been one for consistency, in either English or Japanese, which they've shown just splendidly with their flipflopping of Lilipur. I'd still say to give the official translations a go, though. Through all the flipflopping, at least one of them is usually correct.

Intentional bastardizations of names have been done for years. We have how many variations of the same name throughout how many cultures? How many of them were changed just to reflect their language's pronunciation system, and how many of them were changed just because they felt like it? How many mothers name their kids shit like Mykul (Michael with "unique" spelling) and think it's clever or special? This kind of thing is done all the time in reality, and plenty in fiction.

If they truly named them after things consistently, I'm pretty sure they did their homework and know how they're actually spelled. If I spent hours looking up the names of comets that were named in other languages, I'm pretty sure I'd check my spelling if I wanted to follow them 100% accurately. But according to official translations so far, they really, REALLY don't. (How many of them have kept the spellings of the comets?) So their name origin comes from a comet or a mathematician or whatever it comes from. It's a bit of trivia. Put it at the bottom of a wiki, "'Chroto' is an intentional bastardization of the name of the comet, 'Klotho', which happens to also be the name of a figure in Greek mythology and an enzyme."

Not that that's going to be considered. After-all, what good is the word of the creator. But, well, at least Chroto's been consistent.

Though, if/when NA/EU releases and it has mostly the same translations as SEA, I really think it should be considered again to switch to the official translations of subjective names to help lessen the shock of moving from the NA/EU servers to the JP servers, since that's inevitable no matter what happens. Trying to match up names between katakana and someone else's translation is bad enough. Trying to remember that a Kartagot is a Carthago might not be too hard, but when it comes to things like Wopal's natives... I can only imagine how horrid that'll be.
Or, if you're that adamant about it, make a few separate files with the official names begrudgingly slapped in like you do for the Japanese enemies/E-trials. (As an aside: I'd actually appreciate one with Japanese character names since I obviously hate reading "Klotho" so much. But at this rate, I might as well just not use the patch at all.) But that's probably more effort than it's worth, I guess. Players should just be grateful they have a patch at all etc.

Oh well. Life goes on.
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Re: The Localization Argumentation Destination [Patch Feedba

Postby Qwerty » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:41 am

I'm sorry you dislike the name Klotho so much, but your argument there is pretty specious.

You kind of just ignored the entire point of my post, and said what you wanted to say anyway. The official name of the NPC クロト is クロト. That is what the guy who created him named him. Everything else is someone else's guess at the creator's intent. Some guesses are better than others. Ours is better than yours. Sorry.

Intentional bastardizations are obviously plentiful in this series. The thing, though, is that they are obvious from their katakana spellings (because, for the Japanese audience, they have to be). For example, アラクネ (Arachne) becomes ラグネ (Ragne). But クロト? That is precisely how the asteroid 97 Klotho is spelled in Japanese. See for yourself: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/クロト_(小惑星)

As for the darker enemy, I had originally suggested "Carthago" as the name of the enemy, because of the Carthage thing. Bonus points for the fact that the Arks Quest Kartargot Extermination could even be a Cato the Elder reference (I am a huge classics nerd)! However, the enemy looks a bit like a weird mutant snail (in fact, its internal name is simply "snail"), so we instead took the name to be a reference to escargot. While the enemy doesn't have anything to with Carthage, there are definite connections to snails. Hence, the name Kartargot.



And this brings me around to why I put the "You're probably wrong." thing in the first post: Most of the names we use have been pondered and mulled over by a group of fairly intelligent individuals, and a significant amount of reasoning has gone into choosing the names we use. While we are open to suggestions that are backed by similarly well-founded arguments, we are not open to changing names "because Maru sounds cuter" or "because it might be an intentional bastardization." Please try to understand this.

There are, of course, many other names that are just completely made up, and we just went with something that looked/sounded good. Dark Vibrace is one such name, as discussed above. We would be more than happy to change these names were we to find there to be some reasoning behind the name, and this thread also serves as a place for people to post such theories.
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Re: The Localization Argumentation Destination [Patch Feedba

Postby Mewn » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:43 am

Passive-aggressive comments sprinkled in among your arguments are a great way of convincing us you're right, just fyi.

I think Qwerty covered the parts of your post that were actually about the localization and not bitching about how we're not going to listen to you, so I have nothing to add... except, what's your rationale for linking the snail enemy and 'Carthage'?
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Re: The Localization Argumentation Destination [Patch Feedba

Postby houraisan » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:06 am

i'm personally fine with "vibrace" but "rinzece" just isn't as visually pleasing as "rinzes" is to me

my only real complaint is last nemesis becoming final nemesis because "ra" was one of the few runes i could read and then when it became "final" i flipped for a few seconds but otherwise it's no big deal (since then you could also mention master shoot or infinity fire)
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Re: The Localization Argumentation Destination [Patch Feedba

Postby Mewn » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:17 am

I did Rinzece for visual consistency with Vibrace. Yeah I kinda agree it doesn't look that great though.

Last Nemesis became Final Nemesis because I thought it sounded better. I don't shy away from changing names when I think they would sound better in English, but I do try and keep the meaning (compare 'Peak Up Throw', the literal Japanese name, with 'Zenith Throw', the name I gave it).
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Re: The Localization Argumentation Destination [Patch Feedba

Postby Gigafreak » Thu May 01, 2014 3:13 am

Qwerty wrote:Espio named Vardha. We originally had "Varder" but changed it to make the Big Bertha reference more clear.

For Vibrace, see Mewn's explanation above. Assuming you know it is NOT pronounced vib-RACE, then there's not really anything wrong about it.


To be fair, it took me a while to realize it's not "Vi-BRACE" because, well, the letters in "Vibrace" happen to also spell out the English words "Ace" and "Race" and "Brace." I, too, frequently still catch myself pronouncing it that way in my head when he shows up in the mining base missions, and I think I even saw some people on Bumped protesting that this is the right way to pronounce it. What I'm trying to say is that the letters may suggest a different pronunciation more strongly than they do the correct one.

...But considering how long our bestest beetle boss buddy been around, I think people would be just confused if the spelling were changed now, so I guess it's probably best to leave it. (I just like to play devil's advocate because I'm naturally contrary.)

I can't wait until the official translation calls it something ridiculous like Beevoolarth!
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Re: The Localization Argumentation Destination [Patch Feedba

Postby Qwerty » Fri May 02, 2014 3:41 am

I actually once saw someone seriously saying that it should be "Veeblath".
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