Lol, Schthack.

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Re: Lol, Schthack.

Postby phntsy_str_eilitist » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:15 pm

Macman wrote:
essen wrote:Almost no one does it for attention, and almost no one actually gets attention.
Forum elitists say otherwise.
TA is fun for personal competition (Can I beat my best time? Etc, etc), but people often twist it into this perverted form of competition with leaderboards. Then it leaks into non-TA gameplay where if you aren't using this specific set of gear meant to obliterate this specific set of spawns in the fastest way possible, you're called a bad player. That's where my concern lies.

There's no need for personal insults, Essen.

it's not our fault you are a casual and take personal offense to the fact that you refuse to get better
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Re: Lol, Schthack.

Postby essen » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:33 pm

Well you did say I was just looking for attention, Macman, so I just replied accordingly.

Now I think most of you confuse why people are elitists in PSU. It's not about TA, it's about gear. "I have a Spread Needle, you don't, so I'm better than you." 99% of the elitism in PSU comes from this. Then sure, these people do say they run fast and they're the best and so on. But they aren't. The people who are actually good at the game (meaning, good at TA) are generally nice and helpful, and they're the ones answering the questions people ask(ed) on the forums when it got technical. (I talk in the past here because almost none of these still play, even on 360.) Yet people call the TA people elitists? Sounds like jealousy to me.

When I played and did TA, the attacks always came from non TA people, because they wanted to impose how they thought the game should be played. Because they couldn't see the game being played otherwise than talking every step and killing enemies with the most inefficient attacks possible. With justifications like "it's a game, you don't have to be good at it" and so on. But what they and apparently you guys never understood, it's that we have more fun in the game by trying to be good at it.

Now maybe some got hurt when we didn't want to play with them, because they were even worse than Amaury and couldn't finish a mission by themselves, but that's hardly elitism. It's just that playing with people who don't know how to play and that you have to revive every couple rooms gets quite tiring after a while. And then there's the inherent *solo* nature of PSU, so TA people tend to play alone. But that one is going to get fixed in EGS.

And to get back on the gear, at the time i did TA, the TA people didn't actually have that good gear. If you look at my videos on youtube, you'll notice that I only have middle range gear that almost everyone could have quite easily. And it was the same for many others. Of course with haxeta it was hard to not have good gear unless you cut yourself off the market. Gear good enough for TA is actually quite easy to obtain, because you don't need to have the best. Killing in 2 hits is as fast whether you do N or N + 100 damage per hit.

So yeah, please don't confuse the TA people from the ones who think they're the best because they have better gear.
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Re: Lol, Schthack.

Postby Macman » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:16 pm

I see. Well your example reminded me of the nice people back when I played c-mode who helped teach me all the tricks on how to save time in the maps. I was never really "pro" at making incredible times, but I had fun all the same hanging with these people. They were more than willing to play with me when they weren't busy aiming for records, so I kind of see where you're getting at.
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Re: Lol, Schthack.

Postby LightDark » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:44 pm

essen wrote:Now I think most of you confuse why people are elitists in PSU. It's not about TA, it's about gear. "I have a Spread Needle, you don't, so I'm better than you." 99% of the elitism in PSU comes from this. Then sure, these people do say they run fast and they're the best and so on. But they aren't. The people who are actually good at the game (meaning, good at TA) are generally nice and helpful, and they're the ones answering the questions people ask(ed) on the forums when it got technical. (I talk in the past here because almost none of these still play, even on 360.) Yet people call the TA people elitists? Sounds like jealousy to me.


While I agree that gear is a contributing factor for elitism, it's not the way you describe it. It's not a "I have a Spread Needle, you don't, so I'm better than you"; it's a "I have a Spread Needle, but I can kill monsters in 2 shots and everything in the room in 20 seconds while you can't even hit a monster while I'm doing this, therefore I'm better than you". Owning a type of gear has nothing to do with whether you are an elitist or not; it's how it is being used (with respect to the surrounding players in a team) that defines who is an elitist.

This doesn't necessarily mean that "TA" people are "elitists". There is nothing wrong with people TAing, if and only if the entire team agrees that a run is suppose to be a TA run. On the other hand, if you just start jumping into a random team that has no intention of TAing and you start killing things left and right because "you want to clear it as fast as possible", then said "TA" person is an elitist.

Going back to gear now, just because I own a Spread Needle doesn't mean I'll necessarily use it to kill monsters left and right in 2 shots - maybe I'm using it for something else instead that doesn't involve killing monsters. Subsequently, a player can equip the worst possible gear ever but if it is enough to kill monsters left and right while other players can't even hit them, then you have issues. Again, gear doesn't describe who is an elitist, it's the actions of a player that does.

In short, there is a time and place for everything and TAing in a team that has full intention of doing a casual run is not that time and place.
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Re: Lol, Schthack.

Postby essen » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:50 pm

I'm talking about real people. I'm not sure you are.
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Re: Lol, Schthack.

Postby LightDark » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:15 pm

Oh I am, but I can't say you'll believe me seeing how you don't understand what "casual playing" is.
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Re: Lol, Schthack.

Postby essen » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:32 pm

I do but I'm not sure how that's incompatible with competitive gameplay. And to be honest, the most competitive games are also the ones casual people usually play.

But I see you're confusing casual with playing the game wrong. Indeed, you can be a casual player with good gear and you'll end up killing faster than other people. Also, if someone joins a random party and start killing things faster and wants to clear the mission as fast as possible, then be assured that this person isn't TAing! There's a certain number of rules and practices to TA and joining in the middle of the run isn't one, and neither is playing with random people who want to chill out and have no strategy. If someone joins your run and wants to clear the mission fast and doesn't listen to you, then he's just an asshole and I'm pretty sure he never did any TA. This is PSU, you get more money/drops by clearing missions faster, and that has nothing to do with TA. When you TA, you don't have the time to care about drops.

So like I said, I think many here confuse TA people with jerks, or little kids, or whatever idiots and I would be grateful if you stopped confusing "clear the mission as fast as possible" or "best gear or nothing" with TA (and to be honest, these are probably the same jerks and these guys generally don't know even what they're doing, they'd suck at TA).
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