EGS Feedback Thread

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Re: EGS Feedback Thread

Postby Chikinface » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:29 pm

Nanoblasts are a racial skill. They are something that differentiates them from the other races beyond their nose and ears,so I see no reason to drop them. It shouldnt be too hard to edit their power/functionality to be closer to SUVs for say the red and yellow nanoblasts and something like they function now for purple and blue. This is going with the previous suggestion of time and power being the differentiating factors between the blasts.

Unique racial SUVs could help newman and human, but then you've functionality that crosses over different SUVs even if they look different. Plus I don't think there are enough SUV types to do this anyway.

Agrajag wrote:EDIT: Actually, on a related note, the more homogeneous the game is, the more important relatively minor flaws will become. Looking at PSU, for instance, the difference between playing a male character and a female one on the same race is pretty much utterly insurmountable purely because neither brings anything to the table (inb4 boobs) besides their stats. If you're playing a class that uses ATP to attack, a male character will be superior, and vice versa if you're playing a magic class.


Gender shouldn't even be entering the equation in something like this, as I'm certain we're going to drop those anyway. Could you please present a different example, if you know of any?
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Re: EGS Feedback Thread

Postby Agrajag » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:34 pm

Raujinn wrote:Gender shouldn't even be entering the equation in something like this, as I'm certain we're going to drop those anyway. Could you please present a different example, if you know of any?
Manufacturer weapons and armor? Almost every single unit? Classes not named "fortefighter" that get S-ranks in striking weapons? The whole game's largely filled with "exactly like this other thing, but -10% ATP and bluuuue".

The game desperately needs more diversity. This whole "slightly more ATP, slightly less PP" thing never worked out.
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Re: EGS Feedback Thread

Postby essen » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:54 am

BOOBS.
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Re: EGS Feedback Thread

Postby LightDark » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:05 pm

Agrajag wrote:Racial balance (in any way other than "every race is identical besides their ears") depends very much on how missions are designed! If nanoblasts are kept at all, their balance compared to SUVs are immediately affected by mission design; if a mission has a small number of waves with many enemies in each, SUVs will have a huge advantage, while many smaller waves will be better for nanoblasts (because a large amount of the potential SUV damage output will be wasted on empty space).

But the overall effect is dependent on the races themselves - that is, a mission whose intention is to be simple should be simple regardless of race; a mission whose intention is to be complex should be complex regardless of race. Hence the need to analyze the missions complexity (due to races) separately or otherwise, at another time. The core components that are analyzed now should focus on how each race functions outside the scope of combat (stats, types impact, etc.).
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Re: EGS Feedback Thread

Postby Cisce » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:41 pm

The thing that I feel that is most important is that races do have differences but the differences aren't as drastic to stop people from playing certain race/class combinations. I also agree with the idea of the game having more diversity, there should be noticeable difference between armor and weapons depending on the manufacturer that just isn't ATP instead of ATA. I also feel that gender specific stats should not be a part of the game. Even at lower levels the stat difference is small but noticeable, people shouldn't be penalized for wanting to play as a certain gender with race/class combinations.

Sure, changing things around may break balance but you guys need to remember that: PSU's balance is already incredibly broken already. It may take time and I do agree that we would need to have a test around balance changes if they were to happen.
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Re: EGS Feedback Thread

Postby Sakarisei » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:25 am

Well, about item drops, in my opinion, i prefer the standard drop style of psu. PSO style drop is awful, very, very, very awful... Although unafortunately i haven't played psp2/i (And yeah, this is the mean that i haven't got a nice opinion of this), at the moment, i prefer to play on this server with psu drop style.

Sorry if i'm short of words but i prefer to put the standard drop style of psu when i start playing in EGS.

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Re: EGS Feedback Thread

Postby Qwerty » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:37 am

So you'd rather have everything of any value drop from boxes at the end of missions instead of from actual enemies? Because if that's what you are saying, then you have a very unfortunate opinion.

You could afford to explain what you mean a bit more thoroughly.
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Re: EGS Feedback Thread

Postby Cisce » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:52 am

For people to understand my post properly, you should read the first post of the 'Item Drop' topic by Agrajag

I think he's saying that he doesn't like the idea of Section IDs and prefer's PSU implementation instead which keep in mind that if PSO style drops are incorporated into the server we will not have Section IDs as Agrajag said they're "Never ever coming back".

Honestly, I like how the Portable series handles item drops considering we're having client exclusive item drops in the style of PSP1/2/i already:
Agrajag wrote:PSP1/2/i:
Mewn can give better details, heavily abbreviated...
Similar to PSU, but:
*Special drops have level tiers (2/infinity only?).
*Monster unique drops occasionally depend on area.
*Monster unique drops depend on class.


Why do I like this idea? Because instead of the problem which we would have with the PSO drop system we will have a system where we able to give drops their own level tiers meaning that along with the class specific drops what you are getting are most likely going to be more useful and varied along with the possibility of unique items dropped by monsters depending on the area.

This is the ideal system in my opinion, why? Because it gets rid of the faults of both PSO and PSU's weapon drop systems but combines together the great points. If we were going to go with a system I would feel that this should be implemented if it's technically possible. PSP2 has a lot of great upgrades but I feel myself that this is one of the most important that it brought in: A drop system that has far more pros than cons, something that gives players unique drops but also has drops that depend on class and areas to stop people from spamming the exact same mission over and over again.

If it's also possible I'd like to bring in a lot of the event exclusive reward and trading items into usual play with lower percentages. Why? This promotes the idea of everyone being able to freely obtain an item but at the same time it doesn't take away the rarity of the item. Of course, we're talking very low percentages for extremely overpowered items but it's something that would add far more variety into the free missions of the game.
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Re: EGS Feedback Thread

Postby Sakarisei » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:13 am

Ehhh, yep. Section ID's drop style of PSO is a true nightmare comparing with other drop styles... In BB, the name is not the unique value that changes your id, no, no... the char type too. It had provoked useless and senseless names, and for the game's spirit, is not good.

And... about Qwerty's message.

Of course, i prefer the PSP1/2/I because it's better. But if you haven't understood my post, i've tried to say this:

-When EGS is playable, first of all, for not mixing drop styles and ideas of other games, for preventing any errors on the server. Then, in the future, the dev can program psp1/2/i drop style when the server is playable, but not now...

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Re: EGS Feedback Thread

Postby Agrajag » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:06 am

Krigo wrote:For people to understand my post properly, you should read the first post of the 'Item Drop' topic by Agrajag

I think he's saying that he doesn't like the idea of Section IDs and prefer's PSU implementation instead which keep in mind that if PSO style drops are incorporated into the server we will not have Section IDs as Agrajag said they're "Never ever coming back".
This is correct. Section IDs being awful is one of the very few things that (as far as I know) we all 100% agree on.

That said, I do like how PSO handled common drops; look at the drop charts on PSUpedia sometime, practically every monster below level 100 (and several above!) have their entire chart filled exclusively with 1-9* weapons, often boards. Not only does this mean that progression was entirely backwards for much of PSU's life (grind until you hit 80 so you can start to find... items that you really could've used 40 levels before?), but various areas ended up dropping only two or three weapon types at a time (bear in mind, a given block will have no more than 4-5 enemy types in it, and most missions shared at least a few monsters between all their blocks and were in the 2-3 block range), and... yeah. Not really good for anyone. The PSP2/i system seems like a nice compromise, although it'll still likely have the same problems PSO's drop system would in that AotI standard really doesn't have that many rare items.

Krigo wrote:If it's also possible I'd like to bring in a lot of the event exclusive reward and trading items into usual play with lower percentages. Why? This promotes the idea of everyone being able to freely obtain an item but at the same time it doesn't take away the rarity of the item. Of course, we're talking very low percentages for extremely overpowered items but it's something that would add far more variety into the free missions of the game.
Percents are getting heavily nerfed compared to PSU/AotI (having not played the portable games, I can't really compare for them). They were the single most overwhelming stat in all of PSU, to the point where even the weakest possible striking-focused race/class combination (female newman acrotecher, for the record) would need a weapon with at least 516 ATP in order to do more damage than a 50% element 0 ATP weapon. Doesn't seem like all that much, but... this is the absolute lowest value, and there are still weapon types that never reach that point (or don't until high grinds, high rarities, or both).

Sakarisei: PSU's way of handling item drops is no more intrinsic to the game than any other system is. This early in the planning stages, almost anything is likely to take just as much effort to implement.
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