Despair and Hope Tech Changes

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Re: Despair and Hope Tech Changes

Postby AlvinZeR0 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:50 am

Midori Oku wrote:
KanameChidori wrote:The best way to handle it would be to just change the techs across the board. So each tech sub-type could just have even %. Foie, Grants, and Diga should all be the same for damage and hits. Say 320% and 4 targets. Ra-techs should just have 3-6 targets level 11-41 and 200%, etc. I never understood why some skills were weaker than others when they were simply different elements. Ra, Gi, Dam, etc. Status effects in general are not that big of a deal, no run relies on them. I have never had a run change significantly because I get an extra burn or silence. An enemy that gets hit by a burn lv5 would still die on the next cast. Like how Foie is weaker than Diga for no reason. Same with Barta and Zonde the list goes on.

Sidenote: Launch is terrible, it completely destroyed Nosdiga and would most likely do the same thing to any tech. Unless it's possible to have the enemies launched above the tech and not fly away. So you could bounce them up and down a few times.

Sidenote 2: Are PAs and Bullets being looked at as well? I played mainly GM and FM, so I was wondering if they were also going to be looked at (I would be willing to help on these if needed). There were many PAs that should have been nerfed/buffed or changed.


I would say a lot of it has to do with neutral damage and status effects. In comparison between freeze and shock, freeze wins by a long shot. It would make sense for Barta to be weaker than Zonde in that situation. As for your no run relies on status effects statement, I completely disagree. I could give you many examples of them being useful. A good example of major noticeable difference would be in S4 runs, and in time attacks, or even in missions with lots of tech resistant enemies. My Snowcap Screamer S4 video(s) would be a perfect example of all three of those. Hell, burn traps were used a lot in solo/team time attack runs. Especially in time attack events such as the GGC. Maybe just I ran missions as a Masterforce in a different way? After all, I didn't really play much else, but I'm sure you know that already. :p

To each his own?

As for melee PA's and bullets, I could look at possibly doing something for them. For the most part I would say bullets were balanced. Melee PA's on the other hand were a different story. Either way all of it should be made equivalent to the online since offline PA are far more powerful than they should be. I've been in contact with Jess about this subject. He wants to help balance out the melee PAs. I'm sure gaps could be closed, but I would really like to see more of a difference between rifles and twin handguns. The DPS was roughly the same, but rifles had higher status effect levels.

I was thinking that the Melee PA's are weak though. I mean, the weapons are underpowered and if you compare the damage between online and offline, you are guranteed to cry. Though I would like the Melee PA's to gain a kind of buff instead. It doesn't need nerfing. We can only buff our weapons and it just feels different.
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Re: Despair and Hope Tech Changes

Postby Midori Oku » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:27 am

After a closer look it seems as if melee PAs have the same exact stats as the online. I find it really odd that Sega would give melee PAs the online stats, but not the techs. o.O Either way I would want to buff some of the melee PAs to an extent. Stuff like Assault Crush should have the number of hitboxes it hits raised. The online version was changed to 2, 2, 4 believe. I could be wrong on that though. That's something I'll have to check.
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Re: Despair and Hope Tech Changes

Postby Agrajag » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:00 pm

It seems incredibly implausible that more than 1-2 melee PAs could match online, there were several rebalances after PSP1 came out (and the character/monster stat baselines are completely different).
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Re: Despair and Hope Tech Changes

Postby KanameChidori » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:15 pm

Midori Oku wrote:After a closer look it seems as if melee PAs have the same exact stats as the online. I find it really odd that Sega would give melee PAs the online stats, but not the techs. o.O Either way I would want to buff some of the melee PAs to an extent. Stuff like Assault Crush should have the number of hitboxes it hits raised. The online version was changed to 2, 2, 4 believe. I could be wrong on that though. That's something I'll have to check.


I believe Assault Crush had that, I honestly can't remember since it was nerfed back down a long time ago (which sucks). Online there were many pointless PAs that were never used. Ask yourself which PAs were used 99% of the time in TAing runs/runs for FF or FM....SKADD, 1-2 of the travel PAs, and a claw/twin claw PA when it was buffed (I'm going by JP updates). For example slicer PAs were terrible once that other one came out (I can't remember the name) they were too weak and slow. Nobody used any Double Saber PA besides Cyclone and Sprial Dance (after the buff). Whips only had 1 useful PA which was the new one from PSP2 or PSP2i. The list goes on and on. Many of these skills even online should have been changed or buffed to allow for actual usefulness. I mean you could use them in a run but they were so weak that it made the run take longer "cough" Absolute Dance "cough"
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Re: Despair and Hope Tech Changes

Postby Midori Oku » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:22 pm

Agrajag wrote:It seems incredibly implausible that more than 1-2 melee PAs could match online, there were several rebalances after PSP1 came out (and the character/monster stat baselines are completely different).

I was going by information on psupedia. However, it seems I made a mistake. Easy for me to do a 6am after I woke up at 8am the day before. The links take you to the online versions. I just checked the techs and bullets, and it shows the online stats too. I'll have to get on the offline later and compare them.


KanameChidori wrote:I believe Assault Crush had that, I honestly can't remember since it was nerfed back down a long time ago (which sucks). Online there were many pointless PAs that were never used. Ask yourself which PAs were used 99% of the time in TAing runs/runs for FF or FM....SKADD, 1-2 of the travel PAs, and a claw/twin claw PA when it was buffed (I'm going by JP updates). For example slicer PAs were terrible once that other one came out (I can't remember the name) they were too weak and slow. Nobody used any Double Saber PA besides Cyclone and Sprial Dance (after the buff). Whips only had 1 useful PA which was the new one from PSP2 or PSP2i. The list goes on and on. Many of these skills even online should have been changed or buffed to allow for actual usefulness. I mean you could use them in a run but they were so weak that it made the run take longer "cough" Absolute Dance "cough"


I believe Assault Crush was raised from 1, 1, 2 to 2, 2, 4 in terms of hitboxes. When they made that change they also raised the power modifier of it too. Later on they nerfed the damage modifier, but it still had a higher PA modifier than what it did before the buff. When I talked to Jess he pointed out Dus Skadd. He said the buff was nice, but it was overkill. I'll work with him and see what can be done.
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Re: Despair and Hope Tech Changes

Postby KanameChidori » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:50 pm

Midori Oku wrote:I believe Assault Crush was raised from 1, 1, 2 to 2, 2, 4 in terms of hitboxes. When they made that change they also raised the power modifier of it too. Later on they nerfed the damage modifier, but it still had a higher PA modifier than what it did before the buff. When I talked to Jess he pointed out Dus Skadd. He said the buff was nice, but it was overkill. I'll work with him and see what can be done.


It was overkill because of the speed buff it got and the last hit modifier in the combo. It hit like 10-12k like 4 times to 4 or 6 enemies (I think it was that much, it was the throw part). Assault Crush wasn't too bad after the nerf but it wasn't viable compared to Skadd.
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Re: Despair and Hope Tech Changes

Postby Agrajag » Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:13 am

KanameChidori wrote:I mean you could use them in a run but they were so weak that it made the run take longer "cough" Absolute Dance "cough"

If using absolute dance instantly killed everything on the map, it would still be a terrible PA. It's top on the list for being completely reworked.

Don't be too attached to the online stat tables; the goal is to bring the online content, it's not to bring the online numbers (likewise, the online types are dead and buried).
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Re: Despair and Hope Tech Changes

Postby KanameChidori » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:55 pm

Agrajag wrote:
KanameChidori wrote:I mean you could use them in a run but they were so weak that it made the run take longer "cough" Absolute Dance "cough"

If using absolute dance instantly killed everything on the map, it would still be a terrible PA. It's top on the list for being completely reworked.

Don't be too attached to the online stat tables; the goal is to bring the online content, it's not to bring the online numbers (likewise, the online types are dead and buried).


That's good news. It's fun to use but it just sucks. I figured the online stats meant nothing since offline is so much different (monster levels and stats like hp).
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Re: Despair and Hope Tech Changes

Postby AlvinZeR0 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:13 am

Ok, I hadn't thought of this but I figured out why my damage is so low. It's because my class right now is Acromaster (from Agrajag) so the attack damage is absolute rubbish. Fighmaster has the same stats. Even when you level them up, they gain no increase on any stats. I increased the damage of all my weapons by 300+ for that purpose.
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Re: Despair and Hope Tech Changes

Postby KanameChidori » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:51 am

AlvinZeR0 wrote:Ok, I hadn't thought of this but I figured out why my damage is so low. It's because my class right now is Acromaster (from Agrajag) so the attack damage is absolute rubbish. Fighmaster has the same stats. Even when you level them up, they gain no increase on any stats. I increased the damage of all my weapons by 300+ for that purpose.


Yeah they have placeholder stats. They aren't being used in the final product (at least from what I understand).
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