AotI Offline (Unofficial) Expansion: Despair and Hope

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Re: AotI Offline (Unofficial) Expansion: Despair and Hope

Postby Agrajag » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:11 pm

I can't promise Ohtori Encampment, there's a very real chance it would fail spectacularly offline (especially on an older client). I can, however, pretty much guarantee the two free missions (Sinners' Banquet, Castle of Monsters) will work. They're a little bit less unique, but Castle of Monsters especially still brings something to the table, at least (namely "a lot of the larger monsters").
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Re: AotI Offline (Unofficial) Expansion: Despair and Hope

Postby KanameChidori » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:37 pm

Agrajag wrote:I can't promise Ohtori Encampment, there's a very real chance it would fail spectacularly offline (especially on an older client). I can, however, pretty much guarantee the two free missions (Sinners' Banquet, Castle of Monsters) will work. They're a little bit less unique, but Castle of Monsters especially still brings something to the table, at least (namely "a lot of the larger monsters").


Oh right those were missions. Whenever I see Ohtori I only think of Encampment lol.
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Re: AotI Offline (Unofficial) Expansion: Despair and Hope

Postby Necman » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:21 am

This mission pack sounds great. I don't know what Ohtori Encampment is so I won't miss much. Missions with big monsters sounds like fun!
On a side note unrelated to the mission pack I was wondering what went wrong with weapon rebalancing project?
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Re: AotI Offline (Unofficial) Expansion: Despair and Hope

Postby Parallaxed » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:43 pm

Ohtori Encampment is the best mission ever. You get to fight Daddy Ethan Waber and his friends. Please let me re live the memory of having Daddy Ethan hit me.
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Re: AotI Offline (Unofficial) Expansion: Despair and Hope

Postby Agrajag » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:53 am

Necman wrote:On a side note unrelated to the mission pack I was wondering what went wrong with weapon rebalancing project?

This one's a bit of a doozy.

Essentially, a while back, I promised two big changes to the grind system:
1. PSO-style grinding (a weapon may go to +100 or +150 where each grind is the same bonus; I will not make every weapon go to +10 but have each grind give different stats).
2. You can grind a weapon's rank, turning it from C to B to A to S (or the opposite!).
(There's a third: You can raise multiple different stats per weapon: maximum damage, minimum damage/ATA, or PP, where each grinder is likely to focus on one or another. This isn't particularly relevant here, but I haven't forgotten it.)

A weapon in your inventory has the following:
Current PP
Maximum PP
Rank
Grind bonus ATP

So... if you want to create a rank grinder, it's easy enough, just keep a set of bonus stats and add it per rank that you increase. Easy to find room, easy to implement with minimal changes to the game itself.

As implemented, this added a constraint, though: Each rank must add an equivalent amount of stats. For ease of generation, I also made each star within the tier give the same amount of stats (e.g the gap between a 12* and 11* weapon is the same as the gap between a 10* and 11*); this doesn't match the game itself, which likes to make higher rarities give increasing amounts of stats, but I can sorta simulate that. I also tried to make it so that jumping rank would give a substantial bonus (decreasing as you go up--going from 12* to 13* is much smaller than going from 6* to 7*) with the power of math (if anyone wants to see the formulas, let me know! this part was pretty okay).

So I made a nice system for this. It'd generate baseline stats, then you'd put in multipliers for each stat and that'd give you your weapon.

And it ended up being incredibly difficult to tell people how to make it work. How do you determine what are good stats for a weapon? I prefer wider swings between them (if you focus on ATP, I want a lot of ATP and not a lot of everything else, not a 5% bonus on ATP and a 5% penalty on something else), but how far is too far?

So I reworked it. Now you had a base "how good is this?" stat (from 0 to 5), and a 0-5 rating on each stat. Raising a single stat would lower the others, and vice versa. It was very elaborate, very clever.

...But I couldn't figure out how to weight the stats properly. I ended up with pretty much every weapon having a +150 max grind. I couldn't get variance to work in a way that seemed even remotely sensible. I couldn't get the stat modifiers to not make weapons go completely crazy. I never managed to thread that needle between "interesting" and "sensible".

So, long story short, it's on hold for the time being. I need to revisit it, but I haven't gotten to it yet. I'm thinking the modifiers have to only affect part of the stats, rather than the whole thing--this would cut down on some of the excesses. I do not intend to use the online stats, regardless; they're also a complete mess, but a boring sort of mess.

Parallaxed wrote:Ohtori Encampment is the best mission ever. You get to fight Daddy Ethan Waber and his friends. Please let me re live the memory of having Daddy Ethan hit me.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of it. Take all those NPC enemies from the story (the Vol Bros, Ethan, Liina, Howzer, Tylor, etc), give them major stat buffs, and force people to fight them all in a row. It's pretty intense!

It's also somewhat tied in with GAS systems that don't exist in the US client.
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Re: AotI Offline (Unofficial) Expansion: Despair and Hope

Postby Parallaxed » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:49 pm

Agrajag wrote:It's also somewhat tied in with GAS systems that don't exist in the US client.


Oh? How so.
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Re: AotI Offline (Unofficial) Expansion: Despair and Hope

Postby KanameChidori » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:18 am

Parallaxed wrote:
Agrajag wrote:It's also somewhat tied in with GAS systems that don't exist in the US client.


Oh? How so.


Doing Othori would give you AMP, up to Stage 2 (499 or 500). The way GAS missions went is that you had a few for Stage 1 which was 0-499 then after that the only way to gain more AMP was to do Stage 2 missions 500-999, then after that Stage 3 which was 1000-3000. You would not gain any more AMP (or reduced amounts, can't remember which) if you were at the max cap for that Stage (So if you're at 499-500 and you keep running Ohtori for example, you would stop gaining AMP or gain it at a reduced rate). Unlike 360 where you had to farm all 3 Stages of GAM to purchase certain items, JP had most if not all of them as drops. So pushing for higher than Stage 1 was pretty useless.

Ohtori was a great mission because it has a lot in it. You also found a ton of BT Frags which you could use for PA Fragments or Blank Disks which was really useful since you needed those for the advanced PAs (Skadd things like that). I believe you could also find Demon Hearts and a few other AMP items. Great mission.
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Re: AotI Offline (Unofficial) Expansion: Despair and Hope

Postby ShiroKujira » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:41 am

Hi, i'm new here and am kinda lost. Sorry for being lazy for not reading all the way through this thread, where the answer to my question probably is, but basically i just want to be able to play Aoti's episode 3 offline main story mode missions. I know that because they were online only you can't play them with the base aoti offline install but was wondering if you guys had figured out a way to do it. I heard that bringing episode 3 to offline mode was being worked on here, but reading through some of this thread kinda just left me more confused. If someone could explain what's going on here and if what i'm asking for is currently possible to me like i'm 5 years old it would be much appreciated.
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Re: AotI Offline (Unofficial) Expansion: Despair and Hope

Postby Agrajag » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:56 am

KanameChidori wrote:Doing Othori would give you AMP, up to Stage 2 (499 or 500). The way GAS missions went is that you had a few for Stage 1 which was 0-499 then after that the only way to gain more AMP was to do Stage 2 missions 500-999, then after that Stage 3 which was 1000-3000. You would not gain any more AMP (or reduced amounts, can't remember which) if you were at the max cap for that Stage (So if you're at 499-500 and you keep running Ohtori for example, you would stop gaining AMP or gain it at a reduced rate). Unlike 360 where you had to farm all 3 Stages of GAM to purchase certain items, JP had most if not all of them as drops. So pushing for higher than Stage 1 was pretty useless.

Did the mission actually cap at 500? I was under the impression that it could get you to the actual cap (iirc 1000).

On a more technical sense: all PSU missions have scripts attached to them. When the thing that runs the scripts encounters something it doesn't recognize (like, say, an online call to check how much AMP you have), it just stops doing anything. In most missions, that just means there's no more music or labels for entrances, but Ohtori Encampment may or may not have a bit more going on (for instance, the part where you go from round 1 to round 2 is definitely a script call...).
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Re: AotI Offline (Unofficial) Expansion: Despair and Hope

Postby KanameChidori » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:00 pm

The cap for AMP was 3000, now that I think about it I believe you could run Ohtori up to 3k, I don't think it had the same limits put on it like the normal GAM missions.
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